Would you marry your first cousin?

[Dr_Moe]

Salam

I live in a city with a very large Asian population. A lot of my patients are Asian children with genetic abnormalities and in most cases, the parents are first cousins or very close blood relatives.
I'm now becoming very vocal about my dislike for first cousin marriages but this has been faced with a lot of disapproval from within the Asian population. This problem is more common among individuals from lower social classes who tend to be less privileged and less educated. The problem is also cultural and before the Islam-hating crew jump on the bandwagon of blaming Islam, I would like to point out that a some of the patients I'm talking about are Non-Muslims from the sub-Indian peninsula. Cousin marriages are allowed in many religions including Islam, Hinduism and even existed in the Old Testament.

I would like to know how people on here view first-cousin marriages. Would you ever consider marrying your first cousin knowing the risks? Would you consider it if it wasn't associated with any risk of genetic abnormalities?




Dr_Moe

[dollyh]

NO

Never


1. From a Medical Point of view It's not healthy and as you said

A lot of my patients are Asian children with genetic abnormalities and in most cases, the parents are first cousins or very close blood relatives.

2. It causes a lot fo family conflicts

3. It's just pure disgusting in my opinion to get sexually involved with your cousin..specially specially 1st cousins; i really see them as my own brothers.



Thank You

Dr_ Doll

[WALAD DA]

Married and to a relative! It can't get any worser than that, can it? In our family, us royalties should only be married to their first cousins. In fact, they do the arrangements before you even know it or maybe since you was a zygote. I think their only reason is taht they want to keep a pure family bloodline lol

[dollyh]

Originally Posted by WALAD DA

Married and to a relative! It can't get any worser than that, can it? In our family, us royalties should only be married to their first cousins. In fact, they do the arrangements before you even know it or maybe since you was a zygote. I think their only reason is taht they want to keep a pure family bloodline lol

lol

and also keep the fortunes (The Businesses, the money , the gold, the houses etc...)

[كاليميرو]

Thanks for the interesting topic, Dr Moe

Is there currently any genetic screening procedure that can help quantify the risk?

And if there is such a thing, is it reliable enough to elinimate the possibilty of children developing the most common hereditary diseases?

[Enta-Ana]

No

I can never get married to my first degree cousins. They are good men; but for me they are just like my brothers.
Besides, I am aware that close family marriage raises the probability of genetic diseases.

[WALAD DA]

Originally Posted by dollyh

lol

and also keep the fortunes (The Businesses, the money , the gold, the houses etc...)

lol dollyh naah in our case you only keep "alfagour"
however that fagour is defined, the money, the looks, the everything

[dollyh]

Originally Posted by WALAD DA

lol dollyh naah in our case you only keep "alfagour"
however that fagour is defined, the money, the looks, the everything

lool@ u

maybe then not ur case.. but many sudanese think this way....

they be like..
مافي زول بكون احسن منا غير ود خالتا
ومافي زول حيخاف عليها و يحترمها اكتر من ود عمتا
و بعدين احنا تعبنا و شقينا السنين دي كلها
عشان نجي في النهايه ندي الورانا و القدامانا لي الغرابه
لالالا ... تعرسي ود ابوك بس

[WALAD DA]

Originally Posted by dollyh

they be like..
مافي زول بكون احسن منا غير ود خالتا
ومافي زول حيخاف عليها و يحترمها اكتر من ود عمتا
و بعدين احنا تعبنا و شقينا السنين دي كلها
عشان نجي في النهايه ندي الورانا و القدامانا لي الغرابه
لالالا ... تعرسي ود ابوك بس

lol @ تعرسي ود ابوك بس
This how dem sorry guys end up hooked up to each other for the rest of their sorry lives with a bunch of genetically deformed little ones
Tagoul nagsien takhalouf fi aldonya

[Enta-Ana]

Originally Posted by dollyh

لالالا ... تعرسي ود ابوك بس

what???



wad 3ammik you mean?

[thenile]

If she is very very beautiful and rich, I will marry her

[كاليميرو]

Originally Posted by dollyh

3. It's just pure disgusting in my opinion to get sexually involved with your cousin..specially specially 1st cousins; i really see them as my own brothers.



:

In Sudan, this was the norm until very recently.

While I agree with your other reservations, I find your association of cousin marriage with "disgust", a tad bit on the extreme side of things.

I am quite sure my grandfather or grandmother were not "disgusting" individuals.

This is a purely Western concept and I find it quite alien and irrelevant to the Sudanese, dollyh.

[shambati]

Salam all,

I wouldn't ....I would like to think that marriage (hopefully) would open up new avenues for social acquaintaces for me,which in turn will bring its own accompanying new world of fun,laughter,problems and even mutual interestsetc etc.

I envision Marrying in the family will just turn into a grind and a boring chore after a while.

The More worryingly implication is, if there are any flash points (between the spouses) it would/will be very awkward and far too sensitive an issue to deal with firmly.

Starting off with a clean slate is a great deal healthier for both spouses ,i think (no baggage needed lol).

بعدين بنات اهلي السمحات كلهن عرسوهن
بعدين يادكتور انا اهلي ناس مانشستر ديل مابرضي فيهم

But


never say never

[dollyh]

Originally Posted by WALAD DA

lol @ تعرسي ود ابوك بس
This how dem sorry guys end up hooked up to each other for the rest of their sorry lives with a bunch of genetically deformed little ones
Tagoul nagsien takhalouf fi aldonya

The sad part that really hurts me; is when i see a well educated sudani or sudani, who is quite aware of this retardation, yet when it comes to marriage, they dumb all their civilization in the garbage, and marry "THAT" 1st cousin.

so sad indeed

it just tells me one thing

some people are born ignorant and die ingnorant regardless of how much they know

[dollyh]

Originally Posted by كاليميرو

In Sudan, this was the norm until very recently.

While I agree with your other reservations, I find your association of cousin marriage with "disgust", a tad bit on the extreme side of things.

I am quite sure my grandfather or grandmother were not "disgusting" individuals.

This a purely Western concept and I find it quite alien and irrelevant to the Sudanese, dollyh.

Western or Sudani... It is something i cannot digest..."MY OPINION"

i was talking about my own self. because the post clearly asks " WOULD YOU"

Dr_Moe didn't ask " what we think of those who marry 1st cousins"

Please distinguish the difference 1st.

Thank YOU


Dr_Doll

[dollyh]

Originally Posted by Enta-Ana

what???



wad 3ammik you mean?

TO ME IT'S NO DIFFERENCE.. SAME SAME

[SoulBrother]

it's kinda pointless to me

because our familes in sudan have some ugly mixed marraiges

if it was with close cousin i have no problem

but am talking about when you 20's somthin year old

and they tell you the 5 years old kid is your uncle

you be like WTF

i think sudanese families are more intermarriaged than first counsins

which make is worst





Personally ,,, i don't care

Allah draw us the women we can't marry " Sisters , mothers , ...."

so ,, who i am to say no

[Enta-Ana]

Originally Posted by shambati

بعدين بنات اهلي السمحات كلهن عرسوهن

why are you hidding this?

[shambati]

Excuse meeeeeeee Enta Ana

Please do not reproduce my work...u can be subject to copyright lawsuits

[Dr_Moe]

Originally Posted by كاليميرو

Is there currently any genetic screening procedure that can help quantify the risk?

And if there is such a thing, is it reliable enough to elinimate the possibilty of children developing the most common hereditary diseases?

Salam


In the UK there is a clinical genetics service that will screen patients with known hereditary problems. If unaffected parents have a child with a genetic abnormality then they get referred to a clinical geneticist who discusses the recurrence risks and pre-natal screening with the parents.


However, in most cases the parents are unaffected couples who just got married. Most of us take risks in life thinking that "these things will not happen to me" and this is the case in most of these marriages. Let's take the case of Mr A, a Brit from Asian ethnic background, who marries his cousin Mrs A who had lived most of her life in Pakistan. Mr A's parents were first cousins and they had 7 healthy kids so he now believes that he won't have any problems marrying Mrs A. Mrs A gets pregnant and, along with every other pregnant woman in the UK, she is offered offered a Down's Syndrome screening blood test at 15 weeks. If this test is positive then further tests are performed e.g. taking samples from the amniotic fluid and performing chromosome testing. If the test is negative then an anomaly ultrasound scan is done at 20 weeks. The ultrasound scanners that are in use today today can pick up most congenital defects. In fact, some of the new scanners can even pick up complicated heart deformities. Therefore, most congenital defects can be picked up at this stage.

This brings us to the next problem. At this point Mr and Mrs A will be given the option to terminate the pregnancy and like most Asians, they will refuse. And I'm keeping my views on abortion and genetic defects to myself as I always do.


To answer your question: no, there is no single blood test that will tell if a couple are ‘genetically compatible’. Screening can be done for a small number of genetic disorders but not all genetic disorders can be tested for.




Dr_Moe

[كاليميرو]

Originally Posted by dollyh

Western or Sudani... It is something i cannot digest..."MY OPINION"

i was talking about my own self. because the post clearly asks " WOULD YOU"

Dr_Moe didn't ask " what we think of those who marry 1st cousins"

Please distinguish the difference 1st.

Thank YOU


Dr_Doll

No problem,

I have no problems understanding plain English.


Here is what you said

Originally Posted by dollyh

NO

3. It's just pure disgusting in my opinion to get sexually involved with your cousin..specially specially 1st cousins; i really see them as my own brothers.

The first part of your statement (before especially) is a generalization through the use of (your). You then went on, to support this generalization with your own personal take on the issue.

Perhaps a better paraphrasing of your words would have helped.

[dollyh]

Originally Posted by كاليميرو

No problem,

I have no problems understanding plain English.


Here is what you said

The first part of your statement (before especially) is a generalization through the use of (your). You then went on, to support this generalization with your own personal take on the issue.

Perhaps a better paraphrasing of your words would have helped.

are youu gonna put the WHOLE discussion on hold and start antagonizing me?


i said it's MY OWN OPINION..... if you understand plane english then you must have understood that....

am not Gonna rephrase anything.... if you didn't understand then that is your own problem

accept my opinion respect it or don't... at the end i stated my OWN opinion take it or leave it..


I could care less about what your grandparents did

it's already obvious!



Salam!

[Enta-Ana]

Originally Posted by shambati

Excuse meeeeeeee Enta Ana

Please do not reproduce my work...u can be subject to copyright lawsuits

be careful next time

[kitayabi]

I dont neceserally see it as wrong but I wouldnt personally do it, because it realy does cause family conflict,plus while the medical problems might not be fully substantiated there is clearly a relative risk with marrying close family members,the important genetic variations that help towards immune defence arent there.
In anycase in Sudan its realy becoming uncommon if I went to my uncle and asked for my cousin he wouldnt in a million years take me seriously.

[كاليميرو]

Thanks Dr Moe for the clear and concise response.

I am out.

I am marrying from a different country altogether,






but hang on!

What about the risk of complementing the faulty genes of this foreign would-be partner?!

After all, genes-borne diseases aren't exactly exclusive to a particular family or even country.

Can one really live a risk-free life?

[كاليميرو]

Originally Posted by dollyh

I could care less about what your grandparents did

it's already obvious!

Is this what whoever raised you up did (apologies to them BTW)?

This was completely uncalled for.

[kitayabi]

Originally Posted by كاليميرو

In Sudan, this was the norm until very recently.

While I agree with your other reservations, I find your association of cousin marriage with "disgust", a tad bit on the extreme side of things.

I am quite sure my grandfather or grandmother were not "disgusting" individuals.

This is a purely Western concept and I find it quite alien and irrelevant to the Sudanese, dollyh.

I agree with you disgusting is over blowing, my grand father and grand mother on my mothers side were cousins,but they got married more then half a century ago.
However I dont think the stigma of getting married to your cousin is a western thing,its more to do with your enviroment if you live in an isolated village some where your more likely to get married to your cousin,because you have few other options.
In some rural parishes in the UK close relative marriages are still comman.

[SHARGAWI]

Would I contemplate marrying my first cousin? No. For social and medical reasons. Socially, it is good to have blood relationship with other families than limiting to yourself ( actually your first cousin is like yourself.) Medically, for reasons given by Dr_Moe.

[Dr_Moe]

Originally Posted by kitayabi

I dont neceserally see it as wrong but I wouldnt personally do it, because it realy does cause family conflict,plus while the medical problems might not be fully substantiated there is clearly a relative risk with marrying close family members,the important genetic variations that help towards immune defence arent there.
.

I don't understand what you mean by "not fully substantiated"! The available data tells the entire story. More than half of all British Pakistanis marry first cousins. British Pakistani babies are a mere 3% of all newborns in the UK, yet they account for 33% of children with genetic defects at birth. I say the existence of significant relevant risk is fully substantiated.


P.S. These figures are obviously over-exaggerated by the fact that non-Asian couple are more likely to terminate a pregnancy than Asian couples.




Dr_Moe

[kitayabi]

Originally Posted by dollyh

I could care less about what your grandparents did

it's already obvious!



Salam!

dollyh was there any need for such a cheap comment

[كاليميرو]

Originally Posted by kitayabi

I agree with you disgusting is over blowing, my grand father and grand mother on my mothers side were cousins,but they got married more then half a century ago.
However I dont think the stigma of getting married to your cousin is a western thing,its more to do with your enviroment if you live in an isolated village some where your more likely to get married to your cousin,because you have few other options.
In some rural parishes in the UK close relative marriages are still comman.

I see what you mean Kitayabi, but the ludicrous notion that having a physical relation with your cousin is somewhat incesteous is a Western piece of garbage that has nothing to do with us.

[Pure81]

Originally Posted by Dr_Moe

Salam

I live in a city with a very large Asian population. A lot of my patients are Asian children with genetic abnormalities and in most cases, the parents are first cousins or very close blood relatives.
I'm now becoming very vocal about my dislike for first cousin marriages but this has been faced with a lot of disapproval from within the Asian population. This problem is more common among individuals from lower social classes who tend to be less privileged and less educated. The problem is also cultural and before the Islam-hating crew jump on the bandwagon of blaming Islam, I would like to point out that a some of the patients I'm talking about are Non-Muslims from the sub-Indian peninsula. Cousin marriages are allowed in many religions including Islam, Hinduism and even existed in the Old Testament.

I would like to know how people on here view first-cousin marriages. Would you ever consider marrying your first cousin knowing the risks? Would you consider it if it wasn't associated with any risk of genetic abnormalities?




Dr_Moe

Islamiclly speaking it is not haram to marry your cousins HOWEVER the prophet has a hadeeth that says "ib3do taslmo" and if there's a shiekh on board maybe he / she can get us the details of the hadeeth. As far as i know "ib3do taslmo" means when getting married try to marry from far away for many reasons.
Many Sudanese families tend to marry from within the family. There are many pros - cons to it. The pros that I haven't seen anyone mentioning is that marrying from within the family is much safer.
my own opionion is its a personal freedom, and many people marry people who are not related to them and they get children who do not fit in with the norm.

[kitayabi]

Originally Posted by Dr_Moe

I don't understand what you mean by "not fully substantiated"! The available data tells the entire story. More than half of all British Pakistanis marry first cousins. British Pakistani babies are a mere 3% of all newborns in the UK, yet they account for 33% of children with genetic defects at birth. I say the existence of significant relevant risk is fully substantiated.




Dr_Moe

I know alot of pakistanis who are married to first cousins but yet very few who suffer from genetic defects,I am not disputing that it increases the chances of having genetic defects,but it remains that the majority of children born from first cousin marriages are still normal.

[kitayabi]

Originally Posted by كاليميرو

I see what you mean Kitayabi, but the ludicrous notion that having a physical relation with your cousin is somewhat incesteous is a Western piece of garbage that has nothing to do with us.

I agree with you there,the way it is look at in the west is an over reaction.

[shambati]

Good point Kityabi
it is/was not viable for some (in that time) to marry outside the family because there were hardly any options.

Not to digress
I would really like to hear from more members.....and whether they would or wouldn't ,rather than why ppl do or did it

Im positive that the likelihood is the overwhelming majority would say they would not ...but let's see/

[Dr_Moe]

Originally Posted by كاليميرو

but hang on!

What about the risk of complementing the faulty genes of this foreign would-be partner?!

After all, genes-borne diseases aren't exactly exclusive to a particular family or even country.

Can one really live a risk-free life?

No one can live without risk. In the UK the population risk of having a child with a severe or lethal medical condition is 2%. Thinking about it, this is a very high percentage (2% of 70 million is a lot of people). In first cousin marriages the risk is approximately 5%. However, I did elude to the fact that a lot of non-Asians opt for termination of the foetus if ultrasound or genetic screening shows that the baby will be born with congenital defects.

In your particular case, if you or your wife to be know that you have faulty genes and you lived in the UK then you're family doctor will refer you to the clinical genetics service. They will map your three-generation pedigree and genetic codes which will enable them to give you an estimation or prediction of the risk. However, they can't give you definite answers.


Nobody is trying to play God here. However,
المهم التوكل و ليس التواكل





Dr_Moe

[auntgranny]

Originally Posted by Dr_Moe

No one can live without risk. In the UK the population risk of having a child with a severe or lethal medical condition is 2%. Thinking about it, this is a very high percentage (2% of 70 million is a lot of people). However, I did elude to the fact that a lot of non-Asians opt for termination of the foetus if ultrasound or genetic screening shows that the baby will be born with congenital defects.

In your particular case, if you or your wife to be know that you have faulty genes and you lived in the UK then you're family doctor will refer you to the clinical genetics service. They will map your three-generation pedigree and genetic codes which will enable them to give you an estimation or prediction of the risk. However, they can't give you definite answers.


Nobody is trying to play God here. However,
المهم التوكل و ليس التواكل





Dr_Moe

Marrying first cousins is banned in 24 of the USA states. If you look at the dog and cat world it is the mutts who are the strongest. Animals that inter-breed within the family become weaker. Often the weakest link gets stronger so if there is a family predisposition to a type of cancer, for example, you can see what can happen. With First Nations in Canada it is not allowed to marry within your family but with very small communities there has been a lot of 'family' marriages and you can see it in the people. It seems as though the worst traits, not the best, are the ones that are passed on.

[SHARGAWI]

There are two good reasons why marrying your 1st cousing could be advantageous:

1) If you have an accumulated family wealth, it remains within the family.
2) You make sure that your 1st cousin doesn't have to wait for a long time before she gets married or doesn't remain unmarried for the whole of her life.

[Ancient_Kings]

Hell No. For us cousin marriages is a no no and not practiced. But if dollyh is my first cousion then ofcourse I would marry her.

[TDK1]

If its a must and can't live without marrying your cousin, I would go for gene test and make sure that the clash between genes are at minim, get professional advice.

If its not a must and can find someone else, I won't marry my cousin because you're risking the health of your babies.

[Taseti]

I would never marry any cousin of mine, let alone a first cousin.

[SGravanno]

Originally Posted by Pure81

my own opionion is its a personal freedom, and many people marry people who are not related to them and they get children who do not fit in with the norm.

Hmmm. very true, so what is the remedy for such child upbringing from a religious point of view, Ms Believer.



/

[Karkar]

No! traditionally, it against African social code! I personally think marrying close relative is an ancient Egyptian thing and those of Arabia. It has to with maintain the lineage, particularly, the Illuminati blood line.

[Computergy]

Originally Posted by TDK1

If its a must and can't live without marrying your cousin, I would go for gene test and make sure that the clash between genes are at minim, get professional advice.

If its not a must and can find someone else, I won't marry my cousin because you're risking the health of your babies.

just that simple

[dollyh]

Originally Posted by Ancient_Kings

Hell No. For us cousin marriages is a no no and not practiced. But if dollyh is my first cousion then ofcourse I would marry her.

......

[dollyh]

Originally Posted by كاليميرو

Is this what whoever raised you up did (apologies to them BTW)?

This was completely uncalled for.

hahahahha poor Guy...that must have wounded you so bad till u lost the logic... ok ok stop crying... am sorry

Next time think twice before you try to antagonize me and twist my words

[Sultan]

Originally Posted by Dr_Moe

Salam

I live in a city with a very large Asian population. A lot of my patients are Asian children with genetic abnormalities and in most cases, the parents are first cousins or very close blood relatives.
I'm now becoming very vocal about my dislike for first cousin marriages but this has been faced with a lot of disapproval from within the Asian population. This problem is more common among individuals from lower social classes who tend to be less privileged and less educated. The problem is also cultural and before the Islam-hating crew jump on the bandwagon of blaming Islam, I would like to point out that a some of the patients I'm talking about are Non-Muslims from the sub-Indian peninsula. Cousin marriages are allowed in many religions including Islam, Hinduism and even existed in the Old Testament.

I would like to know how people on here view first-cousin marriages. Would you ever consider marrying your first cousin knowing the risks? Would you consider it if it wasn't associated with any risk of genetic abnormalities?




Dr_Moe

Dr_Moe,

I agree with you .. it is time people in cultures like ours stopped marrying their relatives!

[jijury]

cousin marriage is totally wrong because If you are a girl and you married to your counsin it is like you married to own brother from same mom no difference. I cannot even envision laying in the same bed with my sister or cousin whom I have been talk to everyday as husband and awife. it is very unfortunate indeed I hope those people who still practice this typical marriage will soon stop it.

[Zaitoona]

Nop. plus all of the above mentioned reasons, it's boooooooooring, imagin, you will spend your life, same faces that you have been with all of your life over and over and over again . Same Aunt/Uncle ,urrrrrgh. If you have a fight with your spouse, it is not between you two, you mom will be angry with his/her dad...etc

But I totally agree with TDK1 ''If its a must and can't live without marrying your cousin, I would go for gene test and make sure that the clash between genes are at minim, get professional advice.
''

[Zaitoona]

Originally Posted by كاليميرو

I am marrying from a different country altogether,

دي من المحطة رقم كم؟