Originally Posted by TIITWENG

What kind of religion that put people in the camps, starving them and then tell them they only way to survive is by converting to islam.

What a marvelous question!

Can u tells us where these camps to be found? I guess they are only in narrow minded people that only accept the words of preachers and "fake Bibles" words (W. Durant "The Story of Civilization" and the "British Encyclopedia")!

When u try to write about a subject, specially "religious matters", please kindly try to respect the others' minds and not to forget their feelings too! Why? Cause, the elements of what u write about, is not just words that pops up suddenly-but-to be realistic, u should be careful about the elements of the subject, bibliography, sources, history and last-but least, to whom this subject is speaking to?

So, the Delusions and Illusions that being an fixed attitude among almost all the "Christian African", not only made them stuck living in dark ages, but also can’t differentiate between "false" and "true"! How, it is a simple equation, everybody knows that 1+1=2; why on earth African Christians don’t know 1 is something other than 3? If u brings an innocent child and told him that 1 is 3 and 3 is 1, positively he would laugh!

At your office, school, hospital or wherever u r working or studying at; you are giving unlimited respect to your boss! You afraid of your parents in certain areas at certain times, then how dare u r that you believe in Christ "peace be upon him" as a GOD at somewhere, and in the same time, somewhere else u describes him as a human being! How does it come? Assuming the non-ability of mankind to understand the nature of God is not a clarification! Simply, because the healthy and opened minds only know that GOD'S nature is out of questions to his slaves!

So TTG, please when you write about Muslims and Islam try to remember (when point your finger to someone, the other is pointing to u)! Please, U Africans, try to emancipate yourselves from this mental slavery to the whites-whom themselves-do not spend efforts, money, time preaching among their peoples. Let the Muslims and Islam alone, keep on what u r believing as u like but don't humiliate and despise Muslims and their religion.

Originally Posted by TIITWENG

What kind of religion that put people in the camps, starving them and then tell them they only way to survive is by converting to islam.

What a marvelous question!

Can u tells us where these camps to be found? I guess they are only in narrow minded people that only accept the words of preachers and "fake Bibles" words (W. Durant "The Story of Civilization" and the "British Encyclopedia")!


About accepting words of a preacher and calling the bible fake, I thought you in this post are preaching about respecting other peoples faith, apprantly that in your mind applies only to islam:p
Stop and think for a while, you have a primitive desert dweller, uneducated, pagan who suddenly claimed to have seen an angel which plunged him in depressions to the point wanting to commit suicide for the next three years because he believed satan had appeared to him............if indeed it was n angel of God then it is a clear evidence that this pagan did not know God, how could you confuse darkness from light? The pagan later claimed to have recieved absolute truth, decleared prior truth corrupt and stole not only the jews and christin holy site but their prophets:eek: Upto this point all the signifficant prophets were Jews and any other that followed never decleared the preveous revelations corrupt, and out of no where came a desert pagan, one mans account, your whole destiney lies in the hnd of one mans account! to your dilema the preveous revelations cant be found any where to compare to see if what he is saying is in keeping with known truth to that point, an outsider to the revealed words to that point and if this one man , one preacher happened to be correct in his initial impression that indeed it was satan that appeared to him then billions of humanity will be lost and you surely will be mong them because you took the words of a single preacher and yet you are accusing other of following blidly preachers and clling our holy book fake:angry:

When u try to write about a subject, specially "religious matters", please kindly try to respect the others' minds and not to forget their feelings too!

You did not think about our feelings, muslims are not the only ones that have feelings


Why? Cause, the elements of what u write about, is not just words that pops up suddenly-but-to be realistic, u should be careful about the elements of the subject, bibliography, sources, history and last-but least, to whom this subject is speaking to?

So, the Delusions and Illusions that being an fixed attitude among almost all the "Christian African", not only made them stuck living in dark ages, but also can’t differentiate between "false" and "true"! How, it is a simple equation, everybody knows that 1+1=2; why on earth African Christians don’t know 1 is something other than 3? If u brings an innocent child and told him that 1 is 3 and 3 is 1, positively he would laugh!

Again you are true to your statement above to respect other peoples feelings....Iam not surprise that your attitude is tinched with the believe that black africans are backwards and primitive and you try to single out the christians because in your mind islam has illuminated those black african muslims that have turn to islam. When you said stuck in darkness as if you and the rest of islamic world lives in a first world even if that was true.......you are just consumers.....what modern invention is original to in particular rab world, when was the last time you bought something of modern technology with made in say "any arab world countries? Even the oild that allows the arabs to enjoy the modern world is not discovered by the arabs



At your office, school, hospital or wherever u r working or studying at; you are giving unlimited respect to your boss! You afraid of your parents in certain areas at certain times, then how dare u r that you believe in Christ "peace be upon him" as a GOD at somewhere, and in the same time, somewhere else u describes him as a human being! How does it come? Assuming the non-ability of mankind to understand the nature of God is not a clarification! Simply, because the healthy and opened minds only know that GOD'S nature is out of questions to his slaves!

So TTG, please when you write about Muslims and Islam try to remember (when point your finger to someone, the other is pointing to u)! Please, U Africans, try to emancipate yourselves from this mental slavery to the whites-whom themselves-do not spend efforts, money, time preaching among their peoples.

Thanks for worrying about our mentl slavery.......but please save you religeion from terrorism then you try to help us if it is not against you faith to help none believer without forcing them to change their religeions in return, if that is not the case we will really use your help:p:p



Let the Muslims and Islam alone,

Muslims should leave others alone, stop stealing other peoples prophets, holy sites, discredidting other peoples holy books and blowing up ancient temples worse blowing up women nd children..........remove the speck from your eyes before you try to remove others


keep on what u r believing as u like but don't humiliate and despise Muslims and their religion.

Muhammad and the Idols of Mecca
While Muhammad was in Mecca he tried to persuade the Quraysh (Meccans) to accept Islam. They were not receptive to him and made life difficult for him and his followers, and so Muhammad's desire to see his people accept him and Islam was unfulfilled. This was until Muhammad recited the following verse.
Have you thought of al-Lat and al-Uzza and Manat, the third ... these are the exalted Gharaniq [3] whose intercession is approved. (Ibn Ishaq, pp. 165-166) Al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat were some of the local idols worshiped in Mecca. Previously Muhammad had spoken against them in his monotheist preaching but now Muhammad accepted the idols and recited that their "intercession is approved". The Islamic explanation as to why Muhammad accepted the idols is that Satan put these words on Muhammad's lips.
Satan ... put upon his (Muhammad's) tongue "these are the exalted Gharaniq whose intercession is approved". (Ibn Ishaq, pp. 165-166)

Muhammad and the Idols of Mecca
While Muhammad was in Mecca he tried to persuade the Quraysh (Meccans) to accept Islam. They were not receptive to him and made life difficult for him and his followers, and so Muhammad's desire to see his people accept him and Islam was unfulfilled. This was until Muhammad recited the following verse. Have you thought of al-Lat and al-Uzza and Manat, the third ... these are the exalted Gharaniq [3] whose intercession is approved. (Ibn Ishaq, pp. 165-166) Al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat were some of the local idols worshiped in Mecca. Previously Muhammad had spoken against them in his monotheist preaching but now Muhammad accepted the idols and recited that their "intercession is approved". The Islamic explanation as to why Muhammad accepted the idols is that Satan put these words on Muhammad's lips. Satan ... put upon his (Muhammad's) tongue "these are the exalted Gharaniq whose intercession is approved". (Ibn Ishaq, pp. 165-166)






Quoted from the Sahih (authentic) Hadith (traditions) of Bukhari, [2], Volume 9, number 111.

Here are additional details from Ibn Ishaq's "Sirat Rasulallah" from Guillaume's translation, "The Life of Muhammad", [3], page 106.

"So I [Muhammad] read it, and he [Gabriel] departed from me. And I awoke from my sleep, and it was though these words were written on my heart. (Tabari: Now none of God's creatures was more hateful to me than an (ecstatic) poet or a man possessed: I could not even look at them. I thought, Woe is me poet or possessed - Never shall Quraysh say this of me! I will go to the top of the mountain and throw myself down that I may kill myself and gain rest. So I went forth to do so and then) when I was midway on the mountain, I heard a voice from heaven saying "O Muhammad! thou are the apostle of God and I am Gabriel."

Have you thought of al-Lat and al-Uzza and Manat, the third ... these are the exalted Gharaniq [3] whose intercession is approved. (Ibn Ishaq, pp. 165-166)

Chuchu the Lying Chimp.....please show me where in the Quran it says that intercession from Allat,al-uzza and Manat will be accepted???????
The following are 4 translations from four different translations and the original arabic and none of them say what you have 'quoted' above....this means that
not only are you an idiot whose hatred for Islam and northern Sudanese has tottaly consumed you....it also means that you are DEVIL who deliberately spreads lies and false allegations in order to sow the seeds of emnity between people.....you and the other Chimps should be banned from this forum for this alone!


Instead of copying and pasting from your silly little anti-Islam bashing websites...why don't you expalin it yourself?....you can't do that because you don't have a clue as to what you are saying...your sole objective is to just stoke up as much emnity on this forum as possible


53:19 (http://19.org/km/RK/53/19)
Compare this with the female idols Allaat and Al-'Uzzah.
53:20 (http://19.org/km/RK/53/20)
And Manaat, the third one.
53:21 (http://19.org/km/RK/53/21)
Do you have sons, while He has these as daughters?
53:22 (http://19.org/km/RK/53/22)
What a disgraceful distribution!
53:23 (http://19.org/km/RK/53/23)
These are but names that you made up, you and your forefathers. GOD never authorized such a blasphemy. They follow conjecture, and personal desire, when the true guidance has come to them herein from their Lord.




53:19 (http://19.org/km/PM/53/19)
Have you considered Allaat and Al-`Uzzah?
53:20 (http://19.org/km/PM/53/20)
And Manaat, the third one?
53:21 (http://19.org/km/PM/53/21)
Do you have the males, while He has the females?
53:22 (http://19.org/km/PM/53/22)
What a strange distribution!
53:23 (http://19.org/km/PM/53/23)
These are but names that you made up, you and your forefathers. God never authorized such. They only follow conjecture, and personal desire, while the guidance has come to them from their Lord.





Have you (all) considered al-Lat and al-Uzza, and Manat the other [who ranks] in third place? Do you have sons while He has daughters? That would then be an unfair attribution! They are only some names which you and your forefathers have called them; God has not sent down any authority for them. They merely follow conjecture and something their souls fancy.


أ،أ‍أڈأ‘أ‡أ¬أ£أ¤أپأ‡أ­أٹأ‘أˆأ¥أ‡أ،أںأˆأ‘أ¬
53:19 (http://19.org/km/A/53/19)
أ‡أ‌أ‘أپأ­أٹأ£أ‡أ،أ،أٹأ¦أ‡أ،أڑأ’أ¬
53:20 (http://19.org/km/A/53/20)
أ¦أ£أ¤أ¦أ‰أ‡أ،أ‹أ‡أ،أ‹أ‰أ‡أ،أ‡أژأ‘أ¬
53:21 (http://19.org/km/A/53/21)
أ‡أ،أںأ£أ‡أ،أگأںأ‘أ¦أ،أ¥أ‡أ،أ‡أ¤أ‹أ¬
53:22 (http://19.org/km/A/53/22)
أٹأ،أںأ‡أگأ‡أ‍أ“أ£أ‰أ–أ­أ’أ¬
53:23 (http://19.org/km/A/53/23)
أ‡أ¤أ¥أ¬أ‡أ،أ‡أ‡أ“أ£أ‡أپأ“أ£أ­أٹأ£أ¦أ¥أ‡أ‡أ¤أٹأ£أ¦ أپأ‡أˆأ‡أ¦أںأ£أ£أ‡أ‡أ¤أ’أ،أ‡أ،أ،أ¥أˆأ¥أ‡أ£أ¤أ“أ،أک أ¤أ‡أ¤أ­أٹأˆأڑأ¦أ¤أ‡أ،أ‡أ‡أ،أ™أ¤أ¦أ£أ‡أٹأ¥أ¦أ¬أ‡أ، أ‡أ¤أ‌أ“أ¦أ،أ‍أڈأŒأ‡أپأ¥أ£أ£أ¤أ‘أˆأ¥أ£أ‡أ،أ¥أڈأ¬

Have you thought of al-Lat and al-Uzza and Manat, the third ... these are the exalted Gharaniq [3] whose intercession is approved. (Ibn Ishaq, pp. 165-166)

Chuchu the Lying Chimp.....please show me where in the Quran it says that intercession from Allat,al-uzza and Manat will be accepted???????
The following are 4 translations from four different translations and the original arabic and none of them say what you have 'quoted' above....this means that
not only are you an idiot whose hatred for Islam and northern Sudanese has tottaly consumed you....it also means that you are DEVIL who deliberately spreads lies and false allegations in order to sow the seeds of emnity between people.....you and the other Chimps should be banned from this forum for this alone!


Instead of copying and pasting from your silly little anti-Islam bashing websites...why don't you expalin it yourself?....you can't do that because you don't have a clue as to what you are saying...your sole objective is to just stoke up as much emnity on this forum as possible


53:19 (http://19.org/km/RK/53/19)
Compare this with the female idols Allaat and Al-'Uzzah.
53:20 (http://19.org/km/RK/53/20)
And Manaat, the third one.
53:21 (http://19.org/km/RK/53/21)
Do you have sons, while He has these as daughters?
53:22 (http://19.org/km/RK/53/22)
What a disgraceful distribution!
53:23 (http://19.org/km/RK/53/23)
These are but names that you made up, you and your forefathers. GOD never authorized such a blasphemy. They follow conjecture, and personal desire, when the true guidance has come to them herein from their Lord.




53:19 (http://19.org/km/PM/53/19)
Have you considered Allaat and Al-`Uzzah?
53:20 (http://19.org/km/PM/53/20)
And Manaat, the third one?
53:21 (http://19.org/km/PM/53/21)
Do you have the males, while He has the females?
53:22 (http://19.org/km/PM/53/22)
What a strange distribution!
53:23 (http://19.org/km/PM/53/23)
These are but names that you made up, you and your forefathers. God never authorized such. They only follow conjecture, and personal desire, while the guidance has come to them from their Lord.





Have you (all) considered al-Lat and al-Uzza, and Manat the other [who ranks] in third place? Do you have sons while He has daughters? That would then be an unfair attribution! They are only some names which you and your forefathers have called them; God has not sent down any authority for them. They merely follow conjecture and something their souls fancy.


أ،أ‍أڈأ‘أ‡أ¬أ£أ¤أپأ‡أ­أٹأ‘أˆأ¥أ‡أ،أںأˆأ‘أ¬
53:19 (http://19.org/km/A/53/19)
أ‡أ‌أ‘أپأ­أٹأ£أ‡أ،أ،أٹأ¦أ‡أ،أڑأ’أ¬
53:20 (http://19.org/km/A/53/20)
أ¦أ£أ¤أ¦أ‰أ‡أ،أ‹أ‡أ،أ‹أ‰أ‡أ،أ‡أژأ‘أ¬
53:21 (http://19.org/km/A/53/21)
أ‡أ،أںأ£أ‡أ،أگأںأ‘أ¦أ،أ¥أ‡أ،أ‡أ¤أ‹أ¬
53:22 (http://19.org/km/A/53/22)
أٹأ،أںأ‡أگأ‡أ‍أ“أ£أ‰أ–أ­أ’أ¬
53:23 (http://19.org/km/A/53/23)

أ‡أ¤أ¥أ¬أ‡أ،أ‡أ‡أ“أ£أ‡أپأ“أ£أ­أٹأ£أ¦أ¥أ‡أ‡أ¤أٹأ£أ¦ أپأ‡أˆأ‡أ¦أںأ£أ£أ‡أ‡أ¤أ’أ،أ‡أ،أ،أ¥أˆأ¥أ‡أ£أ¤أ“أ،أک أ¤أ‡أ¤أ­أٹأˆأڑأ¦أ¤أ‡أ،أ‡أ‡أ،أ™أ¤أ¦أ£أ‡أٹأ¥أ¦أ¬أ‡أ، أ‡أ¤أ‌أ“أ¦أ،أ‍أڈأŒأ‡أپأ¥أ£أ£أ¤أ‘أˆأ¥أ£أ‡أ،أ¥أڈأ¬




Olive,
You are not only an Idiot but you are a son of an idiot, you keep on insulting others......You have not address as to why the prophet wanted to kill himself, you have not address as to why the prophet believed he was possesed. Denying historical fact does not wipe it off from history! What made you think your explanation is the truth and all others false, you desert rat:angry: I will not take any crap from you calling others idiot, you retard:angry:

Talk about banning.... the corhan and your cheeseheads dismiss our holy book as corrupt.....demote our God to mere prophet, claim other peoples prophets and holy sites....you should all be banned... In your view you and your corhan can say all these things about others and once the table turn then it is a NO No:eek:

I am waiting for the day you will ignore me:lool: :lool:

Have you thought of al-Lat and al-Uzza and Manat, the third ... these are the exalted Gharaniq [3] whose intercession is approved. (Ibn Ishaq, pp. 165-166)

Chuchu the Lying Chimp.....please show me where in the Quran it says that intercession from Allat,al-uzza and Manat will be accepted???????
The following are 4 translations from four different translations and the original arabic and none of them say what you have 'quoted' above....this means that
not only are you an idiot whose hatred for Islam and northern Sudanese has tottaly consumed you....it also means that you are DEVIL who deliberately spreads lies and false allegations in order to sow the seeds of emnity between people.....you and the other Chimps should be banned from this forum for this alone!


Instead of copying and pasting from your silly little anti-Islam bashing websites...why don't you expalin it yourself?....


You have quoted all these verses below without you own explanations and without saying why should what you say be considered the truth while what I said is false you retard!
What make you think your sources are absolute truth while that of others are false?






you can't do that because you don't have a clue as to what you are saying...your sole objective is to just stoke up as much emnity on this forum as possible


53:19 (http://19.org/km/RK/53/19)
Compare this with the female idols Allaat and Al-'Uzzah.
53:20 (http://19.org/km/RK/53/20)
And Manaat, the third one.
53:21 (http://19.org/km/RK/53/21)
Do you have sons, while He has these as daughters?
53:22 (http://19.org/km/RK/53/22)
What a disgraceful distribution!
53:23 (http://19.org/km/RK/53/23)
These are but names that you made up, you and your forefathers. GOD never authorized such a blasphemy. They follow conjecture, and personal desire, when the true guidance has come to them herein from their Lord.




53:19 (http://19.org/km/PM/53/19)
Have you considered Allaat and Al-`Uzzah?
53:20 (http://19.org/km/PM/53/20)
And Manaat, the third one?
53:21 (http://19.org/km/PM/53/21)
Do you have the males, while He has the females?
53:22 (http://19.org/km/PM/53/22)
What a strange distribution!
53:23 (http://19.org/km/PM/53/23)
These are but names that you made up, you and your forefathers. God never authorized such. They only follow conjecture, and personal desire, while the guidance has come to them from their Lord.





Have you (all) considered al-Lat and al-Uzza, and Manat the other [who ranks] in third place? Do you have sons while He has daughters? That would then be an unfair attribution! They are only some names which you and your forefathers have called them; God has not sent down any authority for them. They merely follow conjecture and something their souls fancy.


أ،أ‍أڈأ‘أ‡أ¬أ£أ¤أپأ‡أ­أٹأ‘أˆأ¥أ‡أ،أںأˆأ‘أ¬
53:19 (http://19.org/km/A/53/19)
أ‡أ‌أ‘أپأ­أٹأ£أ‡أ،أ،أٹأ¦أ‡أ،أڑأ’أ¬
53:20 (http://19.org/km/A/53/20)
أ¦أ£أ¤أ¦أ‰أ‡أ،أ‹أ‡أ،أ‹أ‰أ‡أ،أ‡أژأ‘أ¬
53:21 (http://19.org/km/A/53/21)
أ‡أ،أںأ£أ‡أ،أگأںأ‘أ¦أ،أ¥أ‡أ،أ‡أ¤أ‹أ¬
53:22 (http://19.org/km/A/53/22)
أٹأ،أںأ‡أگأ‡أ‍أ“أ£أ‰أ–أ­أ’أ¬
53:23 (http://19.org/km/A/53/23)

أ‡أ¤أ¥أ¬أ‡أ،أ‡أ‡أ“أ£أ‡أپأ“أ£أ­أٹأ£أ¦أ¥أ‡أ‡أ¤أٹأ£أ¦ أپأ‡أˆأ‡أ¦أںأ£أ£أ‡أ‡أ¤أ’أ،أ‡أ،أ،أ¥أˆأ¥أ‡أ£أ¤أ“أ،أک أ¤أ‡أ¤أ­أٹأˆأڑأ¦أ¤أ‡أ،أ‡أ‡أ،أ™أ¤أ¦أ£أ‡أٹأ¥أ¦أ¬أ‡أ، أ‡أ¤أ‌أ“أ¦أ،أ‍أڈأŒأ‡أپأ¥أ£أ£أ¤أ‘أˆأ¥أ£أ‡أ،أ¥أڈأ¬

MUHAMMAD SPOKE THE SATANIC VERSES - THE EVIDENCE AND PROOF


Muslims frequently use the phrase "bring forth the proof". Well, the proof is presented here.
This event is documented by the four early biographical writers of Muhammad's life: Ibn Ishaq, Wakidi, Ibn Sa'd, and Tabari. The Hadith and Quran also contain direct references. Additionally several other Islamic scholars on Hadith (traditions) support the event's occurrence.
One Islamic book on Muhammad's life provides the following list:
"... many of the traditionalists have recorded it with reference to the chains of its narrators. Among them more commonly known are: al-Tabari, Ibn Abi Hatim, Ibn al-Mundhir, Ibn Mardauyah, Ibn Ishaq, Musa ibn 'Uqba, and Abu Ma'shar. It is all the more strange that Ibn Hajar, a recognized authority on traditions insists on the truth of this report and says, "As we have mentioned above, three of its chains of narrators satisfy the conditions requisite for an authentic report." [2]
I have found four of the early Islamic biographical sources for this story in English. Therefore, prior to a discussion and analysis of the event, their writings should be reviewed. What first follows are the four accounts related from the 4 early sources:
1) Tabari's "History", published by SUNY, and translated by Watt [3],
2) the "Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir", (The Book of the Major Classes), translated by S. Moinul Haq [4],
3) the "Sirat Rasulallah" (The Life of Allah's Prophet) by Ibn Ishaq, translated by A. Guillaume [5],
4) Wakidi's biographical material on Muhammad also includes the story of Muhammad speaking Satan's words. I have not been able to find Wakidi's entire work in English but Wakidi's work is quoted by W. Muir in "The Life of Mahomet" [6].
5) A sub source from #3 above is found in "New Light on the Life of Muhammad", by A.. Guillaume [7]. This source is from a manuscript containing information from other sources as well as Ibn Ishaq. The writer of the manuscript, Yunus ibn Bukayr, heard Ibn Ishaq's lectures at Kufa (located in modern Iraq), and made notes.
6) Additional supporting evidence will be provided from the Sahih Hadith of Bukhari [8].
7) Finally, verses from the Quran will be provided as concurring evidence that Muhammad spoke the Quranic verses [9]

<A name=part2b>THE EVIDENCE: THE EARLY ISLAMIC SOURCES

TABARI volume 6, page 107

SATAN CASTS A FALSE REVELATION ON THE MESSENGER OF GOD'S TONGUE


The messenger of God was eager for the welfare of his people and wished to effect a reconciliation with them in whatever ways he could. It is said that he wanted to find a way to do this, and what happened was a follows. (170)
Ibn Humayd - Salamah-Muhammad b. Ishaq - Yazid b. Ziyad al-Madani - Muhammad b. Ka'b al-Qurazi: When the messenger of God saw how his tribe turned their backs on him and was grieved to see them shunning the message he had brought to them from God, he longed in his soul that something would come to him from God which would reconcile him with his tribe. With his love for his tribe and his eagerness for their welfare it would have delighted him if some of the difficulties which they made for him could have been smoothed out, and he debated with himself and fervently desired such an outcome. Then God revealed:(171)
"By the Star when it sets, your comrade does not err, nor is he deceived; nor does he speak out of (his own) desire..."
and when he came to the words:
Have you thought upon al-Lat and al-Uzza and Manat, the third, the other?
Satan cast on his tongue, because of his inner debates and what he desired to bring to his people, the words:
"These are the high flying cranes; verily their intercession is accepted with approval. (172)
When Quraysh heard this, they rejoiced and were happy and delighted at the way in which he spoke of their gods, and they listened to him, while the Muslims, having complete trust in their prophet in respect of the messages which he brought from God, did not suspect him of error, illusion, or mistake. When he came to the prostration, having completed the surah, he prostrated himself and the Muslims did likewise, following their prophet, trusting in the message which he had brought and following his example. Those polytheists of the Quraysh and others who were in the mosque (173) likewise prostrated themselves because of the reference to their gods which they had heard, so that there was no one in the mosque, believer orunbeliever, who did not prostrate himself. The one exception was al-Walid b. Al-Mughirah, who was a very old man and could not prostrate himself; but he took a handful of soil from the valley in his hand and bowed over that. Then they all dispersed from the mosque. The Quraysh left delighted by the mention of their gods which they had hared, saying,"Muhammad has mentioned our goes in the most favorable way possible, stating in his recitation that they are the high flying cranes and that their intercession is received with approval."
The news of the prostration reached those of the messenger of God's companions who were in Abyssinia and people said, "The Quraysh have accepted Islam." Some rose up to return, while others remained behind. Then Gabriel came to the Messenger of God and said, "Muhammad, what have you done? You have recited to the people that which I did not bring to you from God, and you have said that which was not said to you." Then the messenger of God was much grieved and feared God greatly, but God sent down a revelation to him, for He was merciful to him, consoling him and making the matter light for him, informing him that there had never been a prophet or a messenger before him who desired as he desired and wished as he wished but that Satan had cast words into his recitation, as he had cast words on Muhammad's tongue. Then God cancelled what Satan had thus cast, and established his verses by telling him that he was like other prophets and messengers, and revealed:
"Never did we send a messenger or a prophet before you but that when he recited (the Message) Satan cast words into his recitation (umniyyah). God abrogates what Satan casts. The God established his verses. God is knower, wise. (174)
Thus God removed the sorrow from his messenger, reassured him about that which he had feared and cancelled the words which Satan had cast on his tongue, that their gods were the high flying cranes whose intercession was accepted with approval. He now revealed, following the mention of "al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat, the third, the other," the words:
"Are yours the males and his the females? That indeed were an unfair division! They are but names which you have named, you and your fathers."
to the words:
to whom he wills and accept (175)
This means, how can the intercession of their gods avail with God?
When Muhammad brought a revelation from God canceling what Satan had cast on the tongue of His prophet, the Quraysh said,"Muhammad has repented of what he said concerning the position of your gods with God, and has altered it and brought something else." Those two phrases which Satan had cast on the tongue of the Messenger of God were in the mouth of every polytheists, and they became even more ill-disposed and more violent in their persecution of those of them who had accepted Islam and followed the messenger of God.
Those of the companions of the messenger of God who had left Abyssinia upon hearing that Quraysh had accepted Islam by prostration themselves with the messenger of God now approached.When they were near Mecca, they heard that the report that the people of Mecca had accepted Islam was false. Not one of them entered Mecca without obtaining protection or entering secretly. Among those who came to Mecca and remained there until they emigrated to al-Madinah and were present with the prophet at Badr, were, from the Banu Abd Shams b. Abd Manaf b. Quasyy, Uthman b. Afafan b. Abi al-As b. Umayyah, accompanied by his wife Ruaqyyah the daughter of the messenger of God; Abu Hudhayfah b. Utbah b. Rabiah b. Abd Shames, accompanied by his wife Sahlah bt. Suhalyl; together with a number of others numbering thirty three men.
Al-Qasim b. Al-Hasan - al Husayn b. Daud - Hajja - Abu Mashar - Muhammad b. Kab al-Qurazi and Muhammad b. Qays: The messenger of God was sitting in a large gathering of Quraysh, wishing that day that no revelation would come to him from God which could cause them to turn away from him. Then God revealed:
"By the Star when it sets, your comrade does not err, nor is he deceived..."
and the Messenger of God recited it until he came to:
"Have you thought upon al-Lat and al-Uzza and Manat, the third, the other?"
when Satan cast on his tongue two phrases:
"These are the high flying cranes; verily their intercession is to be desired. (176)
He uttered them and went on to complete the surah. When he prostrated himself at the end of the surah, the whole company prostrated themselves with him. Al-Walid b. al-Mughirah raised some dust to his forehead and bowed over that, since he was a very old man and could not prostrate himself. They were satisfied with what Muhammad had uttered and said, "We recognize that it is God who gives life and death, who creates and who provides sustenance, but if these gods of ours intercede for us with him, and if you give them a share, we are with you."
That evening Gabriel came to him and reviewed the surah with him, and when he reached the two phrases which Satan had cast upon his tongue he said, "I did not bring you these two." Then the messenger of God said, "I have fabricated things against God and have imputed to him words which He has not spoken." Then God revealed to him:
"And they indeed strove hard to beguile you away from what we have revealed to you, that you should invent other than it against us...
to the words:
"and then you would have found no helper against us" (177)
He remained grief stricken and anxious until the revelation of the verse:
"Never did we send a messenger or a prophet before you... to the words...God is knower, wise. (178) When those who had emigrated to Abyssinia heard that all the people of Mecca had accepted Islam, they returned to their clans, saying,"They are more dear to us"; but they found that the people had reversed their decision when God cancelled what Satan had cast upon the messenger of God's tongue

There are three passages in the Quran that reference the event. These passages are recorded in the biographical material. The first is the actual passage found in chapter 53, called "The Star", (An-Najm), verses 19 through 26 or so. This passage has already been mentioned.
The second passage is in chapter 22, called "The Pilgrimage", (Al-Hajj), verses 52, 53:
"Never have We sent a single prophet or apostle before you with whose wishes Satan did not tamper. But God abrogates the interjections of Satan and confirms His own revelations. God is all-knowing and wise. He makes Satan's interjections a temptation for those whose hearts are diseased, whose hearts are hardened ...

The third passage is chapter 17, called "The Night Journey", (Al Isra), verses 73 - 75:
"They sought to entice you from Our revelations - they nearly did -hoping that you might invent some other scripture in Our name, and thus become their trusted friend. Indeed had we not strengthened your faith, you might have made some compromise with them and thus incurred a double punishment in this life and in the next. Then you should have found none to help you against Us."
All of these verses are mentioned in the biographical material. All of them were revealed in relation to Muhammad speaking Satan's words.
Note how Tabari records Muhammad's admittance of sin and repentance after Gabriel confronted him with his error. Afterwards, God supposedly comforts Muhammad with the verses from chapters 17 and 22. Ibn Sa'd records the same sequence of verses. After he admitted his sinful error, Muhammad was comforted by Gabriel.

Olive
You talk of bashing Islam.....The very existence of your religeon is based on bashing the jews and the christians.....The religion of Islam has as one of its foundational beliefs, bashing christians as below and is found several times throughout the Quran:
In blasphemy indeed are those that say that God is Christ the son of Mary. -Surah 5:17 (Yusuf Ali)
They say: "God hath begotten a son!" - Glory be to Him! He is self-sufficient! His are all things in the heavens and on earth! No warrant have ye for this! Say ye about Allah what ye know not? -Surah 10:68 (Yusuf Ali)
They said, "The Most Gracious has begotten a son"! You have uttered a gross blasphemy. The heavens are about to shatter, the earth is about to tear asunder, and the mountains are about to crumble. Because they claim that the Most Gracious has begotten a son. It is not befitting the Most Gracious that He should beget a son. –Surah 19:88-92 (Rashad Khalifa)
…the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! -Surah 9:30 (Yusuf Ali)
The Quran literally pronounces a curse on those who believe that Jesus is God’s Son. People say such things utter “gross blasphemiesâ€‌ and are likened to “unbelieversâ€‌ or infidels. Without question then, in this regard, Islam is an antichrist religious system. . Islam attempts to create an acceptable form of monotheistic worship , but it also literally exists to directly confront the christian belief systeem and even calls them the highest forms of blasphemy. “Far be it from God that he should have a son!â€‌ These words encircle the inside of the Dome of the Rock Mosque in Jerusalem. This is the very location where for centuries God’s people; the Jews, worshipped in their Temple awaiting their Messiah. This is also where Jesus, the Son of God and the Jewish Messiah will someday rule over the earth. Islam has literally built a monument of utter defiance to this future reality.
Who is really provoking hatred.. those who steals other peoples holy sites and dismiss other peoples faith or those who speaks against it....you desert rat




We reserve the right to respond!!!!!!!:angry: :angry: banned or not banned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is like some chinese coming to a sudanese village and telling them your ancestors are all liers and I brought you a new truth and that new truth is the story about your p[eople is false and claiming that your ancestors actually where chineese and your shrines actually belonged to the chinese, that is what mohammed did....:angry:

The destiny of billions lies on one mans words....allas what if he was wrong!!

The destiny of billions lies on one mans words....allas what if he was wrong!!

Hay CHUCHU

One good thing that u made was admitting they are billions! But unfortunately, AGAIN and as usual as a rest of you, do not thinking before you say! Why don't u for gods' sake realize that it is irrational, that billions' committing the same mistake through 14 century? Is feasible? But I do believe-it is-for ones who submitting themselves freely to a M&Uacute;MMEE'S that called clergymen!
This is a good step would lead to a further one, and truly I'm deadly busy .. but stay tuned .. I will b back soon for the rest of posts regarding this issue.

The destiny of billions lies on one mans words....allas what if he was wrong!!

Hay CHUCHU

One good thing that u made was admitting they are billions! But unfortunately, AGAIN and as usual as a rest of you, do not thinking before you say! Why don't u for gods' sake realize that it is irrational, that billions' committing the same mistake through 14 century? Is feasible? But I do believe-it is-for ones who submitting themselves freely to MUMMEE'S that called clergymen!
This is a good step would lead to a further one, and truly I'm deadly busy .. but stay tuned .. I will b back soon for the rest of posts regarding this issue.

[quote=Buffalo_Soldier;14384]Hay CHUCHU and your fellowers
Look @ this hot meal prepared by Ahmad Deedat:

IS THE BIBLE GODS WORD?
WHAT THEY SAY
CHRISTIANS CONFESS
Dr. W. Graham Scroggie of the MOODY BIBLE INSTITUTE, Chicago, one of the most prestigious Christian Evangelical Mission in the world, answering the question — "Is the Bible the Word of God?" (also the title of his book), under the heading: IT IS HUMAN, YET DIVINE. He says on page 17:
"Yes, the Bible is human, though some, out of zeal which is not according to knowledge, 1 have denied this. Those books2 have passed through the minds of men, are written in the language of men, were penned by the hands of men, and bear in their style the characteristics of men." (Emphasis added).

Another erudite Christian scholar, Kenneth Cragg, the Anglican Bishop of Jerusalem, says on page 277 of his book, "The Call of the Minaret":
"Not so the New Testament3 . . . There is condensation and editing; 4 there is choice, reproduction and witness. The Gospels have come through the mind of the Church behind the authors. They represent experience and history." 5
If words have any meaning, do we need to add another word of comment to prove our case? No! But the professional propagandists, after letting the cat out of the bag, still have the face to try to make their readers believe that they have proved beyond the shadow of any doubt that the Bible is the "irrefragable 6 Word of God." Their semantic gymnastics — equivocating, and playing with words — is amazing!
1. Out of ignorance.
2. The Bible is not Just a Book. It is a selection and compilation of many books.
3. As opposed to the Qur’أ¢n.
4. Another word for Interpolating.
5. Emphasis are mine.
6. Indisputable.

THREE GRADES OF EVIDENCE
We Muslims have no hesitation in acknowledging that in the Bible, there are three different kinds of witnessing recognizable without any need of specialized training. These are:
1. You will be able to recognize in the Bible what may be described as "The Word of God."
2. You will also be able to discern what can be described as the "Words of a Prophet of God."
3. And you will most readily observe that the bulk of the Bible is the records of eye witnessess or ear witnesses, or people writing from hearsay. As such they are the "Words of a Historian"
You do not have to hunt for examples of these different types of evidences in the Bible. The following quotations will make the position crystal clear:
The FIRST Type:
(a) I will raise them up a prophet . . . and I will put my words in ... and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him." (Deuteronomy 18:18)
(b) I even, I am the Lord, and besideme there is no saviour." (Isaiah 43:11)
(c) "Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the end of the earth: for I am God, and there is non else." (Isaiah 45:22)
Note the first person pronoun singular (highlighted in green) in the above references, and without any difficulty you will agree that the statements seem to have the sound of being GOD'S WORD.
The SECOND Type:
(a) "Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying Eli, Eli, lama sabachtani? . . ." (Matthew 27:46)
(b) "And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord:" (Mark 12:29)
(c) "And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God." (Mark 10:18).
Even a child will be able to affirm that: Jesus "cried" Jesus "answered" and Jesus "said" are the words of the one to whom they are attributed, i.e. the WORDS OF A PROPHET OF GOD.
The THIRD Type:
"And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he, (JESUS) came, if haply he (JESUS) might find anything thereon: and when he (JESUS) came to it, (Jesus) found nothing but leaves . . ." (Mark 11:13)
The bulk of the Bible is a witnessing of this THIRD kind. These are the words of a third person. Note the underlined pronouns. They are not the Words of God or of His prophet, but the WORDS OF A HISTORIAN.
For the Muslim it is quite easy to distinguish the above types of evidence, because he also has them in his own faith. But of the followers of the different religions, he is the most fortunate in this that his various records are contained in separate Books!
ONE: The first kind — THE WORD OF GOD — is found in a Book called The Holy Qur’أ¢n.
TWO: The second kind — THE WORDS OF THE PROPHET OF GOD, (Muhummed, may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) are recorded in the Books of Tradition called The Hadeeth.
THREE: Evidence of the third kind abounds in different volume of Islamic history, written by some of high integrity and learning, and others of lesser trustworthiness, but the Muslim advisedly keeps his Books in separate volumes!
The Muslim keeps the above three types of evidence Jealously apart, in their proper gradations of authority. He never equates them. On the other hand, the "Holy Bible" contains a motley type of literature, which composes the embarrassing kind, the sordid, and the obscene — all under the same cover — A Christian is forced to concede equal spiritual import and authority to all, and is thus unfortunate in this regard.

Hay CHUCHU


One good thing that u made was admitting they are billions! But unfortunately, AGAIN and as usual as a rest of you, do not thinking before you say! Why don't u for gods' sake realize that it is irrational, that billions' committing the same mistake through 14 century? Is feasible? But I do believe-it is-for ones who submitting themselves freely to MUMMEE'S that called clergymen!
This is a good step would lead to a further one, and truly I'm deadly busy .. but stay tuned .. I will b back soon for the rest of posts regarding this issue.


Is religeon like polotical votes? The more people vote for a thning that makes it right? By reffering to centuaries islamic beliefs, if this proves islam to be the right one because of the time it has survived then Judaism, Hindusm and christianity that outdated islams all must be right.
A religeon where peop[le are killed for thinking contrary views and being a one way journey Its number can haerdly be of any signifficance

THREE GRADES OF EVIDENCE
We Muslims have no hesitation in acknowledging that in the Bible, there are three different kinds of witnessing recognizable without any need of specialized training. These are:
1. You will be able to recognize in the Bible what may be described as "The Word of God."
2. You will also be able to discern what can be described as the "Words of a Prophet of God."
3. And you will most readily observe that the bulk of the Bible is the records of eye witnessess or ear witnesses, or people writing from hearsay. As such they are the "Words of a Historian"
You do not have to hunt for examples of these different types of evidences in the Bible. The following quotations will make the position crystal clear:
The FIRST Type:
(a) I will raise them up a prophet . . . and I will put my words in ... and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him." (Deuteronomy 18:18)
(b) I even, I am the Lord, and besideme there is no saviour." (Isaiah 43:11)
(c) "Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the end of the earth: for I am God, and there is non else." (Isaiah 45:22)
Note the first person pronoun singular (highlighted in green) in the above references, and without any difficulty you will agree that the statements seem to have the sound of being GOD'S WORD.
The SECOND Type:
(a) "Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying Eli, Eli, lama sabachtani? . . ." (Matthew 27:46)
(b) "And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord:" (Mark 12:29)
(c) "And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God." (Mark 10:18).
Even a child will be able to affirm that: Jesus "cried" Jesus "answered" and Jesus "said" are the words of the one to whom they are attributed, i.e. the WORDS OF A PROPHET OF GOD.
The THIRD Type:
"And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he, (JESUS) came, if haply he (JESUS) might find anything thereon: and when he (JESUS) came to it, (Jesus) found nothing but leaves . . ." (Mark 11:13)
The bulk of the Bible is a witnessing of this THIRD kind. These are the words of a third person. Note the underlined pronouns. They are not the Words of God or of His prophet, but the WORDS OF A HISTORIAN.
For the Muslim it is quite easy to distinguish the above types of evidence, because he also has them in his own faith. But of the followers of the different religions, he is the most fortunate in this that his various records are contained in separate Books!
ONE: The first kind — THE WORD OF GOD — is found in a Book called The Holy Qur’أ¢n.
TWO: The second kind — THE WORDS OF THE PROPHET OF GOD, (Muhummed, may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) are recorded in the Books of Tradition called The Hadeeth.
THREE: Evidence of the third kind abounds in different volume of Islamic history, written by some of high integrity and learning, and others of lesser trustworthiness, but the Muslim advisedly keeps his Books in separate volumes!
The Muslim keeps the above three types of evidence Jealously apart, in their proper gradations of authority. He never equates them. On the other hand, the "Holy Bible" contains a motley type of literature, which composes the embarrassing kind, the sordid, and the obscene — all under the same cover — A Christian is forced to concede equal spiritual import and authority to all, and is thus unfortunate in this regard.


Contrary to the corhan whose words spoken by a primitive illitrate to groups of pagan converts to write what he says down and he has no way of verifying if what he narrates is written down or not....The Bilble is written by divine insipirations by more than 66 individuals over 1500 years different places and generations but yet all conveying a core message without contradiction of those core messages...this in itself speaks volume!

http://debate.org.uk/topics/trtracts/header.gif How does God reveal Himself?

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Muslims and Christians alike claim to preserve the faith of Abraham. Both claim to have their prophets and their writings which have accurately preserved the revelation of God or Allah. But what does each mean by this word 'revelation'? All of us who seek to worship the One True God, agree that God must reveal Himself to us. We cannot discover Him by our own efforts but need Him to reveal Himself. But how does God reveal Himself?
http://debate.org.uk/topics/trtracts/tract08b.gif Sura 42:51-52
"It is not fitting for a man that Allah should speak to him except by inspiration, or from behind a veil, or by the sending of a Messenger to reveal, with Allah's permission, what Allah wills: for He is Most High, Most Wise. And thus have We, by Our command, sent inspiration to thee: thou knewest not (before) what was Revelation, and What was Faith; but We have made the (Qur'an) a Light, wherewith We guide such of Our servants as We will..."

http://debate.org.uk/topics/trtracts/bullet_s.gifThe Islamic View of Revelation (http://debate.org.uk/topics/trtracts/t08.htm#1) http://debate.org.uk/topics/trtracts/bullet_s.gifThe Christian View of Revelation (http://debate.org.uk/topics/trtracts/t08.htm#2) http://debate.org.uk/topics/trtracts/bullet_s.gifJesus Christ, the Word of God (http://debate.org.uk/topics/trtracts/t08.htm#3) http://debate.org.uk/topics/trtracts/bullet_s.gifBetter Comparisons (http://debate.org.uk/topics/trtracts/t08.htm#4) Click here (http://debate.org.uk/topics/trtracts/tract08.hlp) to download a Windows 'Help' version of this document.

http://debate.org.uk/topics/trtracts/bullet_l.gifThe Islamic View of Revelation

Sura 42:51-52 states clearly that Allah may not speak to men except by inspiration. It is for this reason that Allah reveals Himself by means of appointed prophets, who are referred to as rasul, meaning the sent one. These prophets are merely human, therefore limited (Sura 80:1-3). Revelation in Islam is from God to man via the prophets. The final revelation and therefore the most important, according to Islam, is the Qur'an. It was revealed to Muhammad between AD 610-632, via the angel Gabriel, using a process known as Nazil (to descendTanzil), which implies a word-for-word transmission.

Consider the tablets in heaven (Sura 85:21-22). These tablets, upon which the Qur'an is said to be eternally inscribed, have never been created. Since Allah is infinite and transcendent it stands to reason that His revelation and Word are also infinite and transcendent. This final revelation, given through Muhammad, is divine and therefore beyond the realm of human conjecture or criticism. What this means is that the Qur'an which we possess today is and has always been final and pure, without possibility of corruption of the text.
We are to revere the Qur'an of Allah, never questioning its pronouncements. Can a slave question his master? No, therefore a Muslim may not question the Qur'an. At this point Muslims ask Christians, What about your book? Let us compare the Qur'an with the Bible.
http://debate.org.uk/topics/trtracts/bullet_l.gifThe Christian View of Revelation

Unfortunately, this issue starts on the wrong foot. As far as the Christian is concerned, the comparison between the Bible and the Qur'an falls short of the Christian understanding of revelation.

In the Christian understanding, God has not spoken in only one, but in a variety of ways:
Creation, nature, which is the result of the divine craftsmanship.
Actions, in amazing miracles and the different ways God has intervened directly in human affairs.
Prophets, by the words given to them.
We have these revelations. But because of Adam's disobedience in the garden, we are sinful. This has blinded our minds so we cannot see God (2 Corinthians 4:4). Thus, all humanity has consistently failed to understand God. It is due to this sin that idolatry began and the knowledge of the one true God was never grasped.
Consequently, God chose the ultimate option. He became one of us and spoke for Himself. Because of who God is, only He can know and reveal Himself. God is the only One who can speak for God. If you attempt to tell me what God is like you will fail. I can do no better because as finite and sinful human beings we all distort what God is really like. He must communicate Himself since all intermediaries are inadequate for such infinite and holy knowledge. Here, then, is the fourth way God has spoken.
Jesus, the perfect Word of God, showed us who God is.
http://debate.org.uk/topics/trtracts/bullet_l.gifJesus Christ, the Word of God

Jesus Christ is nothing less than God demonstrating Himself to humanity. God pushes aside all others and speaks for Himself. Here and here only, in Christ, will He be known.

Jesus Himself declared this. Philip, an apostle of Christ, sought a revelation of God. Jesus reply was, "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father (God). How can you say, show us the Father? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me?" (John 14:9,10)
Let us compare the revelation of Jesus to the other revelations of God.
Creation declares the glory of God, but this is claimed even by idolaters and pagans! Do we say that these sinners have understood who God is? No, they need more than just nature to tell them what God is like.
Miracles confirm that a prophet is from God. But let us look to those prophets who are declaring blasphemies against God, saying there are many gods, sometimes declaring themselves to be God! Prophets in Hinduism and Buddhism today perform miracles that astound the greatest skeptics. But are these miracles enough to understand God? No, we need more than miracles.
The Bible, the collection of the words of the prophets and messengers, is the infallible, inerrant word of God. It is the testimony to His revelation in Jesus Christ. Jesus taught that the whole Bible speaks of Him. "These are the Scriptures that testify about me." (John 5:39) The Bible is not the end of our understanding of revelation, but our starting point, our sign-post that points to Jesus Christ. Yet our human minds cannot discover God by any investigation of a book, no matter how devout, serious or religiously committed that investigation is. Therefore, by God's Spirit (ruh-allah) we discover Jesus Christ in the words of the Bible.
We understand that for Muslims this must sound confusing and possibly threatening. To explain this truth to them, we may need a better perspective. Instead of comparing the Qur'an with the Bible, as most people tend to do, it is more helpful to compare the Qur'an with Jesus, as they are both considered to be the Word of God, and stand as God's true revelation to humanity.
http://debate.org.uk/topics/trtracts/bullet_l.gifBetter Comparisons

Historically, many Muslims and Christians have compared Muhammad to Jesus and the Qur'an to the Bible (see diagram).

OLD COMPARISONSBecause both are...Qur'an compared to Bible...booksMuhammad compared to Jesus...men

No wonder Muslims and Christians have had so few profitable discussions! A more proper understanding would be to compare the categories of Islam and Christianity respectively. With these categories the natural comparisons would be those of the Qur'an and Jesus; Muhammad and the Apostles of Jesus; and the Bible and the Hadith, or the Tarikh, the Sira and the Tafsir (see diagram).
BETTER COMPARISONSBecause both are regarded as...Qur'an compared to Jesus...the eternal revelation of GodMuhammad compared to Jesus' Apostles...messengers of the revelationHadith, Tarikh, Sira and Tafsir compared to the Bible...the history and teachings of the revelation and messengers

While this may help us to understand each other, we must be careful to underline that the New Testament speaks primarily about Jesus but it has little to say concerning His lifestyle. The Hadiths and Sira, on the other hand, predominantly discuss the lifestyle of Muhammad, what he did, with only a few interpretations of what he said.
In a discussion between Christians and Muslims about revelation, we must compare Jesus Christ and the Qur'an, not the Bible and the Qur'an. We do not point to the Bible, but to Jesus Christ as the definitive revelation of God. It is Jesus who is the final Word of God, the one who can be met today by means of God's Spirit revealing Him through the written pages of the Bible and through personal experience.
For that reason we stand on the Bible as God's inspired, inerrant account of His words and acts throughout history, leading up to the birth, life and resurrection of Jesus. He alone, if we approach Him in faith, will reveal God to us. God is too far beyond all human words to be revealed through anything other than Himself.
God's Spirit now continues to take the searching soul back to Jesus Christ to reveal God there and there only. We must allow those who are content with an alleged revelation of God in mere human words to take their chances, but we cannot be satisfied with anything less than a direct encounter with the revealing God Himself!
In light of these new comparisons, there is no match between the two revelations, Jesus and the Qur'an. The Qur'an is merely a book whose authenticity rests solely on the shoulders of one finite and sinful man (Sura 80:1-3). It is no match against Jesus, revered by Muslims and Christians alike as sinless, who, according to His word, is God Himself, the perfect revelation.
"In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe." (Hebrews 1:1-2)

http://debate.org.uk/topics/trtracts/logo.gif (http://debate.org.uk/topics/trtracts/home.htm)
This pamphlet was compiled by an interdenominational group of evangelical Christians concerned with Muslim-Christian dialogue.

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